The man behind the debt debate

President Obama, Senator Harry Reid, and House Speaker John Boehner are the key players in the debt ceiling debate. Their talks are influenced heavily, however, by an outsider who has convinced a majority in Congress to sign a pledge to vote against tax increases. His name is Grover Norquist and he was in Indianapolis today.

Norquist came here to spread his low tax message to state legislators. On Capitol Hill his pledge is already signed by 236 members of the House and 41 Senators. Norquist founded the Americans for Tax Reform in 1986. It's built on a simple pledge to work and vote against any increase in taxes.

"It makes it easy for an officeholder or a candidate to credibly say I will not raise your taxes," he says.

How successful is it? In the current issue of Time magazine Norquist is described as one of the most important non-elected powerbrokers in American history. Does he think so? "I have the most powerful issue that I work with, taxes," he says. "People understand their interface with the federal government on taxes."

Norquist has convinced all of the Indiana Republicans in Congress to sign his pledge with one exception. He says he will continue efforts to win over Senator Richard Lugar. "Lugar has not," says Norquist.

"Lugar's stated position on that is he wants to go for a retail sales tax, what's known as the fair tax, and he fears that the pledge would interfere." It won't, he says.

Norquist has not had the same kind of success here in Indiana that he's had on Capitol Hill and he's here trying to reverse that. Governor Mitch Daniels has not signed his pledge. Those who have number just 7 in the state Senate and just 22 In the 100 member Indiana House.